Comments on: Roy Jenkins: You’re too liberal! http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/ Looking Forward to Freedom Wed, 08 Feb 2012 21:13:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: tez http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4326 tez Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:14:03 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4326 do people really think the birmingham pub bombers/six were innocent? everyone knows they were guilty. this is political correctness gone mad. why didnt the police reopen the case? it has never been reopened for obvious reasons. they were guilty. they got off on a techinicality. what about the one who,s hands were covered in gun powder? explain that. and it wasny from playing cards! do people really think the birmingham pub bombers/six were innocent? everyone knows they were guilty. this is political correctness gone mad. why didnt the police reopen the case? it has never been reopened for obvious reasons. they were guilty. they got off on a techinicality. what about the one who,s hands were covered in gun powder? explain that. and it wasny from playing cards!

]]> By: Nicholas http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4176 Nicholas Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:41:39 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4176 Tom, I wasn't criticising the Liberal Party of the nineteenth-century but rather I, as a supporter of capital punishment, feel that there is nothing inherently contradictory between the rule of law and the death penalty. The claim of historical context I do not agree with, if I take your use of that term correctly. It is evident that most Liberals of that time believed in hanging and it would be wrong to sit in judgement on them and cherry pick Liberal policies as "Liberal" and "not Liberal" but rather to see them as a whole. burkesworks: It's interesting that Brooke came out in support of abolition, which belies his reputation as a die hard. See: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1964/dec/21/murder-abolition-of-death-penalty-bill Tom,

I wasn’t criticising the Liberal Party of the nineteenth-century but rather I, as a supporter of capital punishment, feel that there is nothing inherently contradictory between the rule of law and the death penalty. The claim of historical context I do not agree with, if I take your use of that term correctly. It is evident that most Liberals of that time believed in hanging and it would be wrong to sit in judgement on them and cherry pick Liberal policies as “Liberal” and “not Liberal” but rather to see them as a whole.

burkesworks: It’s interesting that Brooke came out in support of abolition, which belies his reputation as a die hard. See: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1964/dec/21/murder-abolition-of-death-penalty-bill

]]> By: Tom Papworth http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4170 Tom Papworth Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:08:34 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4170 Thanks Geoff. Good quote! Thanks Geoff. Good quote!

]]> By: Geoff Payne http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4168 Geoff Payne Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:01:38 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4168 As for the issue of hanging, the only Liberal MPs who supported it were Cyril Smith and Steven Ross. Had a Liberal government been elected in the 1970s they would certainly have abolished hanging. As for the issue of hanging, the only Liberal MPs who supported it were Cyril Smith and Steven Ross. Had a Liberal government been elected in the 1970s they would certainly have abolished hanging.

]]> By: Geoff Payne http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4167 Geoff Payne Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:57:31 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4167 Jo Grimond was once asked if he thought the "Liberal/SDP Alliance" would work. "Of course it would" he said. "Roy Jenkins is a perfectly good Liberal, and David Steel is a perfectly good Social Democrat". Jo Grimond was once asked if he thought the “Liberal/SDP Alliance” would work. “Of course it would” he said. “Roy Jenkins is a perfectly good Liberal, and David Steel is a perfectly good Social Democrat”.

]]> By: Tom Papworth http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4164 Tom Papworth Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:51:24 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4164 Nicholas, The second Wilson administration was certainly not liberal, but I think Jenkins was. An oasis in the desert, as it were. At the time there really wasn't a liberal alternative - even the handful of Liberals were more social democratic than... well... Roy Jenkins (Ah, the irony!). I feel your criticism that it not a Liberal administration that abolished hanging is rather unfair. There hadn't been a Liberal administration for half a century. One might ask why the liberals had not done so during their century, but that ignores the historical context. We only gave <i>women</i> vote in 1918 (exactly a century after Bentham's pamphlet!). Nicholas,

The second Wilson administration was certainly not liberal, but I think Jenkins was. An oasis in the desert, as it were. At the time there really wasn’t a liberal alternative – even the handful of Liberals were more social democratic than… well… Roy Jenkins (Ah, the irony!).

I feel your criticism that it not a Liberal administration that abolished hanging is rather unfair. There hadn’t been a Liberal administration for half a century. One might ask why the liberals had not done so during their century, but that ignores the historical context. We only gave women vote in 1918 (exactly a century after Bentham’s pamphlet!).

]]> By: burkesworks http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4154 burkesworks Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:29:04 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4154 Speaking from *this* liberal's point of view Roy Jenkins was, for all his faults, easily the least worst Home Secretary in my lifetime. Most of the recent incumbents of this great office of state, sadly, are down there with Henry Brooke and Joynson Hicks, and as long as Labour and the Tories continue to march to the Murdoch/Mail agenda I see little hope on the horizon. Speaking from *this* liberal’s point of view Roy Jenkins was, for all his faults, easily the least worst Home Secretary in my lifetime. Most of the recent incumbents of this great office of state, sadly, are down there with Henry Brooke and Joynson Hicks, and as long as Labour and the Tories continue to march to the Murdoch/Mail agenda I see little hope on the horizon.

]]> By: Nicholas http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4147 Nicholas Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:45:13 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4147 Jenkins was Home Secretary in the 1974-1976 Labour government, certainly not a liberal government by any standards. I notice that it was not a Liberal administration that abolished hanging. The Liberal Party for most of its life has not found hanging incompatible with liberalism, and certainly did not consider it so in the days when it held power. Jenkins was Home Secretary in the 1974-1976 Labour government, certainly not a liberal government by any standards. I notice that it was not a Liberal administration that abolished hanging. The Liberal Party for most of its life has not found hanging incompatible with liberalism, and certainly did not consider it so in the days when it held power.

]]> By: Tom Papworth http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4145 Tom Papworth Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:54:41 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4145 Edward, The first point is very well made and the second point is daft. If you search this site you'll find plenty of criticism of the Conservatives. Tom Edward,

The first point is very well made and the second point is daft.

If you search this site you’ll find plenty of criticism of the Conservatives.

Tom

]]> By: Edward http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/02/15/roy-jenkins-youre-too-liberal/comment-page-1/#comment-4143 Edward Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=5015#comment-4143 It would be fair if you included Michael "Prison works" Howard here. It would also let you start to rebut the fair criticism that you guys are indistinguishable from a certain internet wing of the Conservatives. It would be fair if you included Michael “Prison works” Howard here. It would also let you start to rebut the fair criticism that you guys are indistinguishable from a certain internet wing of the Conservatives.

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