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Does the tobacco fight back start here?

February 12th, 2010 Posted in Personal Freedom by

ban-on-vending-machinesAt last, a tobacco manufacturer sticks its head over the parapet and says to government enough is enough. Imperial Tobacco has issued a statement stating that its subsidiary will challenge the government plans to ban vending machines.

And why not?  There are – as stated on this site before – many ways that the children can be prevented from purchasing cigarettes, mostly obviously by ensuring that “tokens” must be issued over the counter to use the machines. Anyone under age will not be sold a token and so be unable to use the machines. (There are other systems, equally effective I should add) Simple! This would eradicate the problem of underage purchases in one fell swoop, whilst not limiting the rights of business to sell, and consumers to buy, this perfectly legal product. Everyone happy.

Unless of course this is NOT about under age usage – but an evangelical mission by the Health Secretary to “eradicate” smokers from the face of the earth?

Ok, it may be a bit strong to say “the tobacco fight back starts here”. I am sure that tobacco companies have done much behind the scenes to stand their ground in recent years. But ordinary folks like me dont always get to see they are doing. So well done Imperial Tobacco.

The press release from Imperial Tobacco reads…. 

“Imperial Tobacco Group PLC announces today that its subsidiary cigarette vending machine company Sinclair Collis is seeking a judicial review of the relevant sections of the Health Act 2009 which seek to ban sales of tobacco from vending machines from October 2011.

Gareth Davis, Chief Executive, said: “Legal action is always a last resort but the Government’s decision to ban cigarette vending machines is so disproportionate and unnecessary that it must be challenged.

“We do not want children to smoke and supported the Government’s proposal to stop underage access through the introduction of electronic ID cards, token mechanisms and remote control technology.

“These are effective solutions which have been implemented in a number of other countries and it is a matter of great regret that the UK Government ultimately chose to disregard all of these options in favour of a ban that will result in significant job losses in the vending industry.”

17 Responses to “Does the tobacco fight back start here?”

  1. Obnoxio The Clown Says:

    “Eradicate”.


  2. Philip Walker Says:

    I quite like ‘irradicate’. Presumably, it’s what we want to do to Iran’s ‘scientific research’ programme.

    Doesn’t forcing vending machine owners to hand out tokens nullify the entire point of having a vending machine, which is that it doesn’t need a human to govern it?


  3. Angela Harbutt Says:

    My ranting does lead to some classic typos ! I will compile a book for Christmas. Thanks guys.


  4. Angela Harbutt Says:

    Philip – I dont know the details of how a token system might be used (and its certainly not the only option) but I do know tokens are used elsewhere and the tobacco industry do appear to support this and/or other measures. So I can only presume its an inconvenience they (and the pubs) are willing to accomodate.


  5. Dave Atherton Says:

    May I applaud Imperial Tobacco too for their stance. As your resident smoker-bore-in-chief the idea is that you have to go to the bar to either get your token or one of the bar staff activates the vending machine. Thus ID and assessment of the age of the purchaser can be verified.

    Canada has some of the most draconian purchasing and access laws in the world and this happens.

    “One in five packs of cigarettes smoked by Canadian teens are contraband, the study of more than 42,000 students by the Canadian Medical Association Journal found.

    It also revealed that teens who bought the cheaper contraband tobacco smoked an average of 16.8 cigarettes a day, compared to teen smokers of pricier legal tobacco who smoked 11.9 cigarettes a day.”

    http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/articles.aspx?page=independentarticle&ID=203806


  6. chas Says:

    ASH admit that smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes is a major source of supply to children. They are far cheaper than vending machines. Tobacco companies must be over the moon, because ASH and the smoking ban has made smoking more attractive.


  7. Brenda Says:

    I really can’t see the point of having cigarette vending machines in pubs.
    As we cannot have a cigarette in pubs now, why on earth would a smoker want to go in a pub.
    Smokers that used to go in pubs to enjoy a drink and a cigarette used to find the vending machine useful if they ran out of cigarettes.
    These machines have now surely outlived their usefulness and should be assigned to the scrapheap. Unless the Law is amended to allow people the freedom of choice to smoke in an adult envoironment whislt non-smokers should also be able to chose their preference.


  8. Mrs R Says:

    @ Brenda I really can’t see the point of having cigarette vending machines in pubs.

    That’s fine Brenda, but does it matter if you can’t see the point?

    Buying from them isn’t compulsory, same as buying condoms from the vending machines in the toilets isn’t compulsory – after all, having intercourse in a pub has been outlawed for years, by decency laws. So, using the same “we cannot have a XXXX in pubs” rule there should be no need for condoms to be sold anywhere other than where they are, legally, allowed to be used.


  9. Angela Harbutt Says:

    Damn! is intercourse in a pub illegal? Someone should have told me. They are certainly no signs in my local pub to that effect. Do you think the landlord is breaking the law for not “clearly displaying a sign” to that effect?


  10. Ezekiel II Says:

    I find it difficult to comprehend that intelligent
    Englishmen still frequent “pubs” and purchase tobacco
    with English on the packets.A possible explanation could
    be the severe shortage of real men in the under 60 age
    group. Are we being suffocated by a surplus of twittering,
    pansified Geeks armed to the elbow with plastic keyboards
    flashing mice

    Educated Chav


  11. marley Says:

    Kids don’t and have never bought cigs from vending machines. Too expensive. They get their older mates or sympathetic adults to buy for them. Not illegal so whats the problem?
    It’s also not illegal for the kids to smoke them. So instead of telling them what to, plain and simple guidance may be a better option. Education! remember that? It’s the way to let children grow into adults so they can make up their own minds. If they then choose to ignore the righteous then so be it.


  12. Geoffrey Payne Says:

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the argument, I cannot see why anyone should get excited about cigarette companies defending their own economic interests. What is so noble about that?
    It was of course scientists employed by the cigarette companies that argued that there were no health problems smoking cigarettes back in the 1970s when the scentific concensus said otherwise. Today we know that the scientific concensus was right and the companies were wrong.
    Doesn’t look in the least bit noble to me. It fact it looks devious and underhand.
    If it were true that children would be forced instead to buy counterfeit cigarettes as a cheap alternative, then surely that would create more addicts that will benefit the cigarette industry? I think the calculation made by the cigarette industry is that this will harm their business. People smoking less cigarettes is bad news for them, and good news for everyone else.


  13. Dave Atherton Says:

    @Geoffrey

    Let me first say I receive no remuneration or expenses from tobacco companies and my only connection is that as a satisfied customer.

    Reviewing your post I do agree with you that tobacco companies were disengenuous about lung cancer and heart disease in the 1950s to 1970s. However if you visit BAT Tobacco, Imperial Tobacco, Japan Tobacco and Philip Morris’ websites they are quite explicit in the potential health dangers. Also this is not tucked away in some obscure part of the website but in the opening screen.

    People who run the highest risks are heavy smokers of cigarettes, particularly those smoking 20 a day or more. However the American Surgeon General’s report in 1964 found that pipe smokers lived on average 2 years more than non smokers and Sir Richard Doll who first alerted us post war to the correlation of smoking and LC and other studies since, found that those who smoke very moderately =/< 3 fags a day have no raised risk of LC, heart disease or reduced mortality. Doll also found that GPs could smoke up to 6.3 cigarettes a day without any health effects.

    I am sure there are many other products which taken to excess will have the same effect, McDonalds, vegetables, etc. I read recently of one case where someone used to have 3 bowls muesli a day and died in their 30s from the accumulation of pesticides from the oats.

    Tobacco control has gone a long way from pointing out the risks and having concern for my health to one of oppressive control. Salami slice after slice our rights are being eroded away. In 1998 Clive Bates the then head of ASH said and I quote “..no one is seriously talking about banning smoking in restaurants and pubs..”

    The next gambits for tobacco control include plain packaging, vending machines as we are discussing, banning smoking in cars, banning smoking in the, streets, then the home where children live. My estimate at the current rate is 2015. From 2015 to 2020 ASH and the Department Of Health will be calling for the upgrading of tobacco to be a class C drug which will be achieved around 2020, then by 2025 tobacco will be upgraded to class B and 2030 possibly A. The narcotics industry is worth US $135 billion a year, tobacco $500 billion. Do you really want to live in world where organised crime controls a market that dwarfs heroin and cocaine?

    Imperial Tobacco’s stance is a small line in the sand trying to prevent a criminal Armageddon.


  14. Owl Says:

    Well said Dave!
    We have a population being force fed propaganda costing billions. Why don’t these control freaks just piss off.
    State control has never worked and never will, we should just look at the history books and learn.
    Our socialist/marxist elite have lost the plot completely. I would suggest banning them and removing the smoking ban. A good swap don’t you think?


  15. Kijowski Says:

    You have a really great site! Keep up the good work, I look forward to seeing much more of your posts.


  16. Renee Says:

    You wrote, “Unless of course this is NOT about under age usage.” If it is a ruling by the government one has every reason to suspect the motive. Renee


  17. Belinda Says: