Personally, I think Clegg might do better to (a) oppose an increase in troop numbers, (b) call for a swift scaling-down of numbers while (c) leaving open the option of retaining a limited troop presence at Camp Bastion, for use in intelligence-gathering and direct counter-terrorism measures. This package would have the benefit of making it harder for critics to argue that ‘lives have been lost in vain’ in first securing bits of the south and then abandoning it (a logically flawed and indeed morally repugnant rhetoric, but one still has to tackle it head-on), would make it harder for Al Qaeda to re-establish itself in Afghanistan and would allow Britain to continue to offer limited support and mentoring to the Afghan army – while at the same time proving less of an irritant to Afghan public opinion, as well as less of an expense in terms of lives and expenditure and other commitments.

This may be one of those rare moments where public opinion, pragmatic considerations and ‘doing what’s right’ all end up in the same place. And, yes, I’m a Tory – but that doesn’t prevent me from wishing for as much well-informed debate on this subject as possible, from whatever political direction.

So now we are staying around in order to facilitate the hand over of power to a new “democratically elected government”? The reality is troops are dying in support of a flawed and corruption-prone political process – where it will almost be impossible to ever determine who really won the recent elections.

For me the tipping point was when Hamid Karzai came out in March announcing measures that would legalise rape within marriage. These may not have been implemented – but only last month the Afghan government did quietly pass a law permitting Shia men to starve their wives if they refuse to obey their husbands’ sexual demands, grants guardianship of children exclusively to fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work. We should get out and fast – and if Nick has any sense – and he does – he will take the lead on this, fast.

Let’s not beat about bush; the brutal truth is that British troops are dying for nothing and it is totally beyond me why it is taking our leadership this long to realise this. This is why we should change our position as opposed to electoral calculations…

Yes of course the Lib Dems should advocate pulling out of Afghanistan. UK policy there is rapidly turning (nuclear armed) Pakistan into a failed state. The Lib Dems need to show some balls on this and other issues – especially if they seriously think they have a chance of forming the opposition – they don’t, it’s too late, but it could’ve happened if they’d made better decisions. They’ve not had even a half-credible leader since Pantsdown.

Not your hearing, your reading. My post makes it plain that we should adopt a policy becaus eit’s right – not because of electoral calculations. You didn’t read this.

If your language and tone don’t improve from heronin, we will remove your comments from the site. This is a first and final warning. This isn’t a blog for you to through around foul abuse – especially without any basis.

I have no idea what you are talking about re; Zimbabwe.

Exactly Its still legal to smoke a ciggie in their own house but illegal to smoke a spliff

But forget that as well, this group should campaign strongly to legalise ALL drugs, publically. (And is lib dem policy really to decriminalise weed, I thought it was to make it class C again? … What about ectacy?)

This will answer your question

http://www.the-bastard.com/index.php?section=45&page=453

You keep attempting this bullshit that I ‘misinterpret’ what you say or I can’t ‘comprehend’ what you as a means of deflecting that I’m calling you out & I find it a tad patronising.

One week you say you think we should be rolling the tanks into Zimbabwe & then the next you deny that you ever said it & blame me for ‘misinterpreting’ what you said. Nothing wrong with my fucking hearing its just I call you out & oh boy isn’t that uncomfortable.