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	<title>Comments on: Those who can, teach - like parents!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/</link>
	<description>Looking Forward to Freedom</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: BLOGDIAL &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Gavin Webb sees the light</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-3/#comment-2079</link>
		<dc:creator>BLOGDIAL &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Gavin Webb sees the light</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-2079</guid>
		<description>[...] Gavin Webb was a Liberal Democrat councillor at Stoke on Trent. He called himself a &#8216;Libertarian Liberal Democrat&#8216;, which of course, makes no sense at all: [...] Are you a Libertarian, or are you a Liberal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gavin Webb was a Liberal Democrat councillor at Stoke on Trent. He called himself a &#8216;Libertarian Liberal Democrat&#8216;, which of course, makes no sense at all: [...] Are you a Libertarian, or are you a Liberal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-3/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1761</guid>
		<description>I agree the Lib Dem party line is out of step with public sentiment let alone HE parents. What David laws states may be the party line but if Badman 'believes' (as he states 17 times in his Badman Review) and he may well have misread the national statistics to both the CoE and the NSPCC. The NSPCC has just been critcised (August 2009) for using 10 year old statistics by the ASA (advertising Standards Association) The CofE and NSPCC have both apologised by Letter (July 2009)about the reports attributed to HE in the Press about potential 'parental abuse'from DCSF and NSPCC. There is also the delicate matter of 'Rewards'for favourable Reviews. Badman was awarded a CBE In January 2009 (at the start of the Review) and been made a chair of BECTA in July 2009 (at the end of the review). A UN ambassador in August 2009 mentioned (by Ed Balls) as being awarded a'Sir' in the honours list in ther new year. The conduct of the Review is bought into question by the HM Parliamentary Select Committee this September and the entire bill is being rushed through at the end of an unpopular Government notorious for 'dodgy dossiers'. You have the cheek to write to us about 'quality of Education' equality when we know that we have acted because of the lack of local 'quality education'. The 'Every Child Matters' bill is full of presumption that YOU should be worried about. This stance is very worrying for Liberal party supporters. You are supporting an invasion of privacy not seen since the last war. It will not 'safeguard children' but turn children into 'victims' and 'liabilities'. It is discrimination of a most insidious creeping nature that bankrupts moral and legal parental responbibilty to perverts in the DCSF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree the Lib Dem party line is out of step with public sentiment let alone HE parents. What David laws states may be the party line but if Badman &#8216;believes&#8217; (as he states 17 times in his Badman Review) and he may well have misread the national statistics to both the CoE and the NSPCC. The NSPCC has just been critcised (August 2009) for using 10 year old statistics by the ASA (advertising Standards Association) The CofE and NSPCC have both apologised by Letter (July 2009)about the reports attributed to HE in the Press about potential &#8216;parental abuse&#8217;from DCSF and NSPCC. There is also the delicate matter of &#8216;Rewards&#8217;for favourable Reviews. Badman was awarded a CBE In January 2009 (at the start of the Review) and been made a chair of BECTA in July 2009 (at the end of the review). A UN ambassador in August 2009 mentioned (by Ed Balls) as being awarded a&#8217;Sir&#8217; in the honours list in ther new year. The conduct of the Review is bought into question by the HM Parliamentary Select Committee this September and the entire bill is being rushed through at the end of an unpopular Government notorious for &#8216;dodgy dossiers&#8217;. You have the cheek to write to us about &#8216;quality of Education&#8217; equality when we know that we have acted because of the lack of local &#8216;quality education&#8217;. The &#8216;Every Child Matters&#8217; bill is full of presumption that YOU should be worried about. This stance is very worrying for Liberal party supporters. You are supporting an invasion of privacy not seen since the last war. It will not &#8217;safeguard children&#8217; but turn children into &#8216;victims&#8217; and &#8216;liabilities&#8217;. It is discrimination of a most insidious creeping nature that bankrupts moral and legal parental responbibilty to perverts in the DCSF.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-3/#comment-1757</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1757</guid>
		<description>"The general concensus of opinion, after the circulation of this letter, is that home educators, their supporters and families, are about as likely to vote Lib Dem as hell freezing over."

Indeed I have voted for them in ignorance for years, assuming that they were indeed liberal. 

Still that was my misunderstanding.  It takes an erosion of our liberty for some of us to understand what liberal really means. 

This home education sure teaches us parents a great deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The general concensus of opinion, after the circulation of this letter, is that home educators, their supporters and families, are about as likely to vote Lib Dem as hell freezing over.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed I have voted for them in ignorance for years, assuming that they were indeed liberal. </p>
<p>Still that was my misunderstanding.  It takes an erosion of our liberty for some of us to understand what liberal really means. </p>
<p>This home education sure teaches us parents a great deal.</p>
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		<title>By: OrganisedPauper</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-3/#comment-1755</link>
		<dc:creator>OrganisedPauper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1755</guid>
		<description>I've seen that letter circulated on a lot of home education lists. What David Laws seems not to understand is that it is parents that are legally responsible for their childrens' education not schools.

 Schools are answerable to the tax payer as they receive funds and parents and it is parents who have ultimate legal responsibility. It is for this reason that schools are inspected.

The general concensus of opinion, after the circulation of this letter, is that home educators, their supporters and families, are about as likely to vote Lib Dem as hell freezing over. Certainly I would dissuade anyone I know from voting for them.

It's a shame as some individual Lib Dem MPs have been found to be supportive and have fully grasped the issues, but it seems the party as a whole is not a friend of home education.

For MPs and other interested parties AHEd (Action for Home Education) has prepared a briefing paper regarding home education, the review, issues and the law as it stands.

http://ahed.pbworks.com/BriefingPaperHEReview</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen that letter circulated on a lot of home education lists. What David Laws seems not to understand is that it is parents that are legally responsible for their childrens&#8217; education not schools.</p>
<p> Schools are answerable to the tax payer as they receive funds and parents and it is parents who have ultimate legal responsibility. It is for this reason that schools are inspected.</p>
<p>The general concensus of opinion, after the circulation of this letter, is that home educators, their supporters and families, are about as likely to vote Lib Dem as hell freezing over. Certainly I would dissuade anyone I know from voting for them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame as some individual Lib Dem MPs have been found to be supportive and have fully grasped the issues, but it seems the party as a whole is not a friend of home education.</p>
<p>For MPs and other interested parties AHEd (Action for Home Education) has prepared a briefing paper regarding home education, the review, issues and the law as it stands.</p>
<p><a href="http://ahed.pbworks.com/BriefingPaperHEReview" rel="nofollow">http://ahed.pbworks.com/BriefingPaperHEReview</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-3/#comment-1754</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 09:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1754</guid>
		<description>This letter has recently been sent to a HE parent by David Laws

Dear xx

Thank you for your recent letter and attendance at my various surgeries.

You raise a number of questions and I answer below

1) As I have made extremely clear, my primary concern has nothing whatsoever to do with child abuse. I simply think that there needs to be a sensible system of oversight to ensure that all children-those that are being educated in school and those that are being educated at home-have a reasonable quality of education.

2) Discussing what I mean by 'light touch', what I mean by this is that any oversight should be as un-intrusive as possible, and should focus simply on ensuring that there is a basic minimum standard of education which is being delivered-rather than seeking to intervene and meddle and impose the government's own basic educational model by the back door.

3) I certainly think that there needs to be suitable training and guidance for local authority staff so that they strike the right balance between the various objectives which I set out above. There also needs to be proper funding to support those young people who are being home educated when they need other support for example with examinations.

4) I do not think I was conflating/confusing the issue of absence or truanting with EHE. But it is quite possible for there to be different motivations behind parents desire to home educate and decent system of oversight needs to recognise this and ensure that HE is a positive decision and is not simply a negative decision about existing local schools.

5) You ask whether I believe there should be a system of oversight even if there was only one or a small number of children ever found to be suffering from not having a suitable education. Frankly I do not thinking any of us know precisely what quality of home education is that is being received, therefore I do not think that there should be a system of oversight which is capable of taking into account the needs of all children. As I have mentioned on a number of occasions before, we still inspect schools even although there is no evidence that many schools are providing a poor education. However, inspection is usually proportionate to any evidence that there is about legitimate concerns-and this should be clearly the case with home education as well.

6) As far as statistics used on home educated are concerned, if you believe that the existing statistics used by Badman Review are inaccurate or misleading then I would strongly suggest that you write to the Chair of the Department of Children Schools and Families select committee, bringing attention to the statistics that you believe are correct. The chairman of the committee is Barry Sheerman, MP, and you can write to him at the House of Commons, London SW1A0AA

With best wishes

Yours sincerely,
David Laws MP

Lib Dem Shadow Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This letter has recently been sent to a HE parent by David Laws</p>
<p>Dear xx</p>
<p>Thank you for your recent letter and attendance at my various surgeries.</p>
<p>You raise a number of questions and I answer below</p>
<p>1) As I have made extremely clear, my primary concern has nothing whatsoever to do with child abuse. I simply think that there needs to be a sensible system of oversight to ensure that all children-those that are being educated in school and those that are being educated at home-have a reasonable quality of education.</p>
<p>2) Discussing what I mean by &#8216;light touch&#8217;, what I mean by this is that any oversight should be as un-intrusive as possible, and should focus simply on ensuring that there is a basic minimum standard of education which is being delivered-rather than seeking to intervene and meddle and impose the government&#8217;s own basic educational model by the back door.</p>
<p>3) I certainly think that there needs to be suitable training and guidance for local authority staff so that they strike the right balance between the various objectives which I set out above. There also needs to be proper funding to support those young people who are being home educated when they need other support for example with examinations.</p>
<p>4) I do not think I was conflating/confusing the issue of absence or truanting with EHE. But it is quite possible for there to be different motivations behind parents desire to home educate and decent system of oversight needs to recognise this and ensure that HE is a positive decision and is not simply a negative decision about existing local schools.</p>
<p>5) You ask whether I believe there should be a system of oversight even if there was only one or a small number of children ever found to be suffering from not having a suitable education. Frankly I do not thinking any of us know precisely what quality of home education is that is being received, therefore I do not think that there should be a system of oversight which is capable of taking into account the needs of all children. As I have mentioned on a number of occasions before, we still inspect schools even although there is no evidence that many schools are providing a poor education. However, inspection is usually proportionate to any evidence that there is about legitimate concerns-and this should be clearly the case with home education as well.</p>
<p>6) As far as statistics used on home educated are concerned, if you believe that the existing statistics used by Badman Review are inaccurate or misleading then I would strongly suggest that you write to the Chair of the Department of Children Schools and Families select committee, bringing attention to the statistics that you believe are correct. The chairman of the committee is Barry Sheerman, MP, and you can write to him at the House of Commons, London SW1A0AA</p>
<p>With best wishes</p>
<p>Yours sincerely,<br />
David Laws MP</p>
<p>Lib Dem Shadow Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-2/#comment-1277</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1277</guid>
		<description>Ziggy 

Given your interest in Home Education and your efforts to reduce risk of chilren not being provided with an adequate education the followign links might be useful:

http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm

http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/04/comparative-thoughts-about-school-and.html

http://www.home-education.org.uk/research/review.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ziggy </p>
<p>Given your interest in Home Education and your efforts to reduce risk of chilren not being provided with an adequate education the followign links might be useful:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/04/comparative-thoughts-about-school-and.html" rel="nofollow">http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/04/comparative-thoughts-about-school-and.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.home-education.org.uk/research/review.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.home-education.org.uk/research/review.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-2/#comment-1276</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1276</guid>
		<description>Ziggy

Given the interest you are taking in Home Education the following links might be useful to you.

http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/04/comparative-thoughts-about-school-and.html

http://sometimesitspeaceful.blogspot.com/2009/06/review-report.html

http://pjrothermel.com/phd/Home.htm
Research on HE 

http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/more-from-guardian.html

http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/view-of-schooling-parent.html

http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/05/thoughts-about-state-surveillance-of.html

http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ziggy</p>
<p>Given the interest you are taking in Home Education the following links might be useful to you.</p>
<p><a href="http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/04/comparative-thoughts-about-school-and.html" rel="nofollow">http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/04/comparative-thoughts-about-school-and.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://sometimesitspeaceful.blogspot.com/2009/06/review-report.html" rel="nofollow">http://sometimesitspeaceful.blogspot.com/2009/06/review-report.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://pjrothermel.com/phd/Home.htm" rel="nofollow">http://pjrothermel.com/phd/Home.htm</a><br />
Research on HE </p>
<p><a href="http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/more-from-guardian.html" rel="nofollow">http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/more-from-guardian.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/view-of-schooling-parent.html" rel="nofollow">http://daretoknowblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/view-of-schooling-parent.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/05/thoughts-about-state-surveillance-of.html" rel="nofollow">http://childrenarepeople.blogspot.com/2009/05/thoughts-about-state-surveillance-of.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Isha</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-2/#comment-1272</link>
		<dc:creator>Isha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1272</guid>
		<description>Teacher can be treated like a parent but they can't become parents</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teacher can be treated like a parent but they can&#8217;t become parents</p>
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		<title>By: Suze</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-2/#comment-1270</link>
		<dc:creator>Suze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1270</guid>
		<description>"I’ve forgotten about something but Richard Garner reminded me home schooled kids do take exams &amp; I guess that is the means of judging standards"

Actually, the only test either of mine (15 and 10) has ever taken was the amateur radio license exam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve forgotten about something but Richard Garner reminded me home schooled kids do take exams &amp; I guess that is the means of judging standards&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the only test either of mine (15 and 10) has ever taken was the amateur radio license exam.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.liberal-vision.org/2009/06/25/those-who-can-teach-like-parents/comment-page-2/#comment-1268</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberal-vision.org/?p=1788#comment-1268</guid>
		<description>"I’ve forgotten about something but Richard Garner reminded me home schooled kids do take exams &amp; I guess that is the means of judging standards"

Ziggy 

Tests are fine for a purpose e.g. driving test, Uni exams to show comptence, A levels possibly to show you have the knowledge to move to your next chosen stage in life, tests to check competency of plumbers, doctors etc

The relentless tests which are supposed to check standards in schools are not testing the teachers skill they are testing the ability of the kids to pass tests.  They are of no other use.

We have no tests to check the standards of parents teaching kids to walk or talk, specialists only look at these if something is wrong. Learning is natural, testing can interfere with it and so should be kept to a minimum.  Testing should be justified. It need only be done if there is a concern that might be helped by the knowledge gained from assessment e.g. testing eyesight if reading is a problem or if there is a need for the person to prove knowledge e.g. driving test etc.

If those who use schools think testing is crucial then fine, but many of those who HE think that much testing is pointless and damaging.

Ziggy our world is rich with learning opportunities, people love to learn unless they are forced to (then they begin to hate it).  Testing is only necessary to aid learning if a coercive system of educaiton is used.  In a non-coercive system of learning testing is only needed to show competence to employers etc as described above.  In a non-coercive system the learning happens naturaly without the need for measurement to propel it.  In fact any attempt at measurement, particularly standardised measurement, would fail to provide a picture of the true depth and breath of the learning.

Ziggy you should meet some HE families to see how it works, it's very different from school.  That's why lovely as the word Homeschooling sounds we prefer to call it Home Education.  Though I personally long for a day when we remember that we learn like we breathe and there is no need to call education anything, it is simply what free people choose to spend their lives doing, it's an integral part of being human.

This is shocking stuff to experts in education who cannot imagine that people will learn without imposed teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve forgotten about something but Richard Garner reminded me home schooled kids do take exams &amp; I guess that is the means of judging standards&#8221;</p>
<p>Ziggy </p>
<p>Tests are fine for a purpose e.g. driving test, Uni exams to show comptence, A levels possibly to show you have the knowledge to move to your next chosen stage in life, tests to check competency of plumbers, doctors etc</p>
<p>The relentless tests which are supposed to check standards in schools are not testing the teachers skill they are testing the ability of the kids to pass tests.  They are of no other use.</p>
<p>We have no tests to check the standards of parents teaching kids to walk or talk, specialists only look at these if something is wrong. Learning is natural, testing can interfere with it and so should be kept to a minimum.  Testing should be justified. It need only be done if there is a concern that might be helped by the knowledge gained from assessment e.g. testing eyesight if reading is a problem or if there is a need for the person to prove knowledge e.g. driving test etc.</p>
<p>If those who use schools think testing is crucial then fine, but many of those who HE think that much testing is pointless and damaging.</p>
<p>Ziggy our world is rich with learning opportunities, people love to learn unless they are forced to (then they begin to hate it).  Testing is only necessary to aid learning if a coercive system of educaiton is used.  In a non-coercive system of learning testing is only needed to show competence to employers etc as described above.  In a non-coercive system the learning happens naturaly without the need for measurement to propel it.  In fact any attempt at measurement, particularly standardised measurement, would fail to provide a picture of the true depth and breath of the learning.</p>
<p>Ziggy you should meet some HE families to see how it works, it&#8217;s very different from school.  That&#8217;s why lovely as the word Homeschooling sounds we prefer to call it Home Education.  Though I personally long for a day when we remember that we learn like we breathe and there is no need to call education anything, it is simply what free people choose to spend their lives doing, it&#8217;s an integral part of being human.</p>
<p>This is shocking stuff to experts in education who cannot imagine that people will learn without imposed teaching.</p>
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