Comments on: Is the Social Liberal Forum Dying ?

By: Martinag6

Martinag6 — Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:22:41 +0000

Hi all, my Name is Martina, I’m a female who is new here and looking to make new friends…
Is there anyone out there that wants to say hi??

greets Martina

By: Preokenob

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By: Quaequam Blog! » Bullying

Quaequam Blog! » Bullying — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:01:47 +0000

[...] think I am. Indeed, during a period when people have been trying to start a feud with me and my colleagues, I’ve been quite careful to not respond in kind (which is not to say I haven’t [...]

By: Ziggy Encaoua

Ziggy Encaoua — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:25:21 +0000

Personally I think social liberals should be more open to the ideas of market liberals & I believe social liberals need to be tolerant to the fact that theirs is not the only perspective of liberalism. But at the same time I accept that they are the majority opinion with in the Lib Dem party, in other words for the best interests of the party I wouldn’t rock the boat too much as I’ve done in the past & I’d advise others too do the same.

By: Wayne Lawrence

Wayne Lawrence — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:27:26 +0000

Ziggy,

Sure I accept what you’re saying. In fact most mainstream parties are a coalition, if not in actual fact like the Lib Dems, at least in ideologies.

Your example of Australian politics is something I happen to know a bit about. Yes there are two Liberal parties, but even within the separate “liberal” parties, there are still opposing factions.

The Liberal Party of Australia (the economic liberal party) still consists of “wet liberals” and “dry Liberals” (note also capitalization). The dry Liberals are more like Tories whereas wet liberals are more a social liberal/classical liberal hybrid. Overall they are referred to as conservatives.

The Australian Democrats started as a social liberalist party under the late Don Chipp (I mention him because he was a thoroughly decent politician) as a splinter party from the Australian Liberal Party. But as they moved further left and became ipso facto social democrats, the economic liberals quit and they crashed and burned. I don’t think they won a single seat in either house in 2007. Australia is different to the UK, but the politics are analogous; Lib Dems could study what happened to the ADs in Oz in my humble opinion.

So these internal factions are everywhere in politics.

But I digress…

You mention that classical liberals must walk the raggedy edge of arguing their position without causing splits, without an indication of whether you think the social democratic/social liberal wing should operate under the same caution.

What is your position in this regard?

By: Ziggy Encaoua

Ziggy Encaoua — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:38:40 +0000

@Wayne

On the subject of selling market liberal ideas to social liberals its worth noting that the Liberal Democrats party are an exception when it comes to liberal parties around the globe.

If you look at countries such as Holland, Denmark & Australia there are generally two liberal parties one advocating left liberalism & one advocating something approaching market liberalism.

The Liberal Democrats are a coalition of social liberals & market liberals & we are stronger for that coalition. Sure Market liberals should argue the case for more market liberal type policies with in the party but not to the extent where it might cause a split in the party. I stress again that whatever the majority opinion on whatever policy needs to be accepted by all factions of the party for the sake of the party.

By: James Graham

James Graham — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:10:50 +0000

The SLF website is down because, in the process of upgrading from WordPress 2.7 to 2.8, something appears to have gone wrong. Not sure what – seems to be database related – but having spent the morning trying to sort it out, I’ve had to come into work.

Always happy to entertain.

By: Wayne Lawrence

Wayne Lawrence — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:05:30 +0000

Has SLF now gone into cardiac arrest?

I’m just getting a blank white page, no error messages and no source code.

I await Twain-esque explanations.

By: Ed Joyce

Ed Joyce — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:08:18 +0000

We need to do something concrete in terms of looking at how these policies can be sold to the electorate. Before the set up of LV and the SLF I thought that Lib Dems actually preferred Social Liberalism on the whole but having seen the way Social Liberalism is ripped apart whenever it appears that does not seem to be the case. There is a definite appetite for Classical Liberal ideas. The problem is that the system of tax and spend is set up very differently to that which would allow the easy implementation of Classical Liberalism. The only solution that is big enough is Land Valuation Tax and Citizens Income. That would allow the welfare state to be truly for exceptional circumstances, and break the nanny state. Is there another idea. Simply reducing taxes and cutting budgets would not in my opinion achieve enough without running in to unbreakable resistance, since it would involve throwing literally millions of people out of work. We would end up with gradualism that would eventually grind to a halt. It needs a radical solution that take tens of billions a year out of the property/inheritance windfall pot that is very simple to access and could be used to tip the system from one way of thinking to another.

By: Wayne Lawrence

Wayne Lawrence — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:06:13 +0000

@Mark,

Those principles should somehow be written into the Gospels in my opinion, the only caveat being it’s a tough gig to sell to social democrats and those addicted to opiate of welfare and government pork-barrelling (and plenty of the middle class also fall into that category. Labour, and perhaps even some in our own party would counter sell it as cutting “services” to the poor, fewer teachers, fewer police yada yada.

Perhaps we should learn something from our Fabian “friends” ==> Gradualism.