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Labour down to 18% support for Westminster elections

June 1st, 2009 Posted in UK Politics by

Mike Smithson has the details of the latest MORI poll. Con 40%, Lab 18%, LibDem 18%, Others 24%. Staggering stuff.

Nick Clegg is the only party leader improving his public standing.

21 Responses to “Labour down to 18% support for Westminster elections”

  1. Ziggy Encaoua Says:

    I want to know particularly from liberals what’s to be done about tackling the BNP if they win seats come Thursday.

  2. Oranjepan Says:

    Ziggy, that is the wrong question.

    Nothing different is to be done.

    Liberals work together where we agree and oppose those we disagree with. Is there any other way?

    If the democratic process throws out unwanted results then we must support the process and work harder to get our own messages across.

    Whichever party wins at election-time the electorate will judge politician by their action (or inaction) for when next time comes round.

  3. Tom Says:

    Ziggy, personally I think that all three major parties should form some form of back-door committee, where a bipartisan effort can be staged to strategically defeat the BNP together. Combined finance, knowledge and campaigning efforts is the only way to crush them

  4. Julian Harris Says:

    Steady on everyone – they’ve done nothing yet. There’s an awful lot of noise around about nothing more than a potential, theoretical threat (which even at its worse – say, they poll 8% – still isn’t that bad).

  5. Ziggy Encaoua Says:

    I’m sure back in 1924 when Hitler was sent to prison that there were people in the German political establishment who thought the nazi party were a laughing stock

  6. Tom Says:

    Julian, the BNP are only polling 10 points behind the LibDems…I’d say thats a threat that can’t be ignored. On the other hand, I knw that their fundraising efforts are pathetic. They couldn’t afford to implement a campaign strategy that would get them anything over 10%

  7. Oranjepan Says:

    Tom, to put the level of any party ‘threat’ in context, please can you measure the average poll rating of each party over the course of a parliament or term.

  8. Jack Elwood Says:

    I thought you were supposed to be a Libertarian Ziggy, last time I checked, that included freedom of expression and free speech. In all respect, this is not the Weimar republic, we have not just been pummelled into the dust by a alliance of foreign powers and there is no real widespread support for the BNP. All this talking them up does nothing but give them the publicity they crave. Let them open themselves up and let the public see their rotten, national socialist core.

  9. Ziggy Encaoua Says:

    Hey when did I propose banning the BNP?

    Just because I believe in freedom of expression doesn’t mean that I don’t object to what some say & propose & nor does it disqualify me from objecting to what some might say & propose.

    I don’t propose banning the BNP but I do believe they are a danger to our liberal democracy & believe people need to be educated to as why.

  10. Jack Elwood Says:

    Then I apologise, I took from it that you wished for some kind of political plan to limit their abilities to campaign. Though educating about their policies I fear would have to be done carefully, if parties do it that is just attack campaigning, which they can brush off, if it is school based education then that is morally wrong. I think the only way is to tackle them head on in debate rather than have this situation where they have to be referenced in almost every political speech and their supporters run rampant on (almost) every blog or news site on the web spouting their nonsense, if things aren’t debated in the real world, then the internet takes up the mantle. Where it’s a hell of a lot easier to spout bullshit without reproach.

  11. Mark Littlewood Says:

    The “how to take on the BNP” issue is quite interesting, I think.

    I think there are two possible ways to do it well and one possible way to do it badly.

    The ways to do it well are either:

    1. Say you’re going to take on the BNP and bloody well do so. Get Nick Griffin in some proper debates. Put Dame Kelly Holmes on the platform and ask the BNP whether they think she is a British hero or a racial abomination. Call in any of the Poles who flew the Spitfires (pictured on the BNP’s posters) – ask their opinions too. get Griffin to look holocaust survivors in the eye. Do this openly and directly. And preferably on TV. Expose the BNP’s gross nonsense for what it is.

    2. Ignore them and hope they go away. Don’t talk up the threat of the BNP advance. Just don’t discuss them at all. Try and snuff out the candle and make sure everyone else in your mainstream party does the same.

    I think both these strategies are credible – but that the case for strategy 1 is growing. Clearly, the strategies are mutually exclusive.

    What mainstream politicians shouldn’t do (and seem increasingly inclined to do) is:

    3. Engage in occassional bouts of hand-wringing about the evils of Nick Griffin and the BNP whilst sort of semi-indicating that “something must be done”. Pretend that this “something” amounts to much more than an extra-leafletting effort in strong BNP areas, when it doesn’t. Limit the (very easy to make) arguments against the BNP to a wishy-washy generic and vague condemnation of them as “neo-Nazis” and their voters as hoodwinked. If and when the BNP support in a certain area rises, express sorrow, disappointment and anger, but undertake to “reach out more” to disadvantaged and disillusioned communities and reaffirm that really, really, really, “something must be done”

    Strategy 3 is a recipe for disaster.

  12. Wayne Lawrence Says:

    Exactly Mark.

    Can I ask a question more related to the post? On the weekend the Daily Mail floated the idea of a Lab/Libdem coalition and referred to it as Paddy Ashdown’s “dream”.

    Is this even remotely possible? To my mind, this would be a classical liberal’s worst nightmare, particularly a Lib Dem one.


  13. thomas Says:

    Can I point out that Kelly Holmes is not exactly the best example of a heroine.

    Her reputation and damehood is based on winning two gold medals at a single Olympic games. But they were training partners and there were regular stories of pace-setting and other obvious anti-competitive strategies organised between them.

    There have been widespread suggestions that a deal was struck so that Holmes would help Mutola win the all the Golden League series races in exchange for giving Holmes the Olympic Gold medals – ie to maximise the returns available. Would Holmes be a dame, or Mutola a UN goodwill ambassador if they had run every race as a true-run competition? Possibly, but that’s something we’ll never know. Would their cache and celebrity marketing power have been effected? Almost definitely, and that’s an admission of the cynicism of our times.

    Anyway, it seems obvious with hindsight that Holmes is a Labour supporter, and I’m not sure that her status as a heroine is not tainted.

    Perhaps we should seek more deserving and articulate people if we’re about to start holding them up as examples. I was always a fan of Daley Thompson.

    Where was Griffin on the Gurkha issue?

  14. Ziggy Encaoua Says:

    Say you’re going to take on the BNP and bloody well do so. Get Nick Griffin in some proper debates. Put Dame Kelly Holmes on the platform and ask the BNP whether they think she is a British hero or a racial abomination. Call in any of the Poles who flew the Spitfires (pictured on the BNP’s posters) – ask their opinions too. get Griffin to look holocaust survivors in the eye. Do this openly and directly. And preferably on TV. Expose the BNP’s gross nonsense for what it is.

    I remember saying to Gavin Webb that I’d like to see Nick Griffin appear on Question Time just see how much of the audience would prepared to applaud anything he says when the cameras are on them.

  15. Mark Littlewood Says:

    Well, I’m not especially wedded to Kelly Holmes being on the platform – but you get the general point (perhaps Rio Ferdinand or Theo Walcott or Lewis Hamilton would be better?)

    On the Lib-Lab point, I always get queasy about this sort of thing. Strikes me that it’s always likely to drag us in the direction of being soggy, centrist, interventionist social democrats. That said, getting electoral reform is still a central task and I’d be willing to hold my nose to secure it.

  16. thomas Says:

    If we’re talking athletics Daley Thompson should be on the platform. Active pros who still have something to prove in their field can wait until time has taught them the extra ingredient needed.

    Would you achieve electoral reform by holding your nose, or would you put the cause back by propping up a government with a vested interest in resisting necessary reforms? I think this is a case where no bread is better than half a loaf – get it wrong and support for democracy will wane.

  17. Ziggy Encaoua Says:

    Lewis Hamilton doesn’t really live here does he & so some would question why should he have a say

  18. Mark Littlewood Says:

    Well, I don’t think we need to worry unduly about the exact make-up of the anti-BNP panel at this stage….

    thomas – Always going to be a balanced judgement on the electoral reform issue, but I do think that it’s one hell of a prize.

  19. thomas Says:

    I agree that electoral reform is a prize worth fighting for, but not for gambling your entire livelihood on.

    AV+, STV, multi-member constituencies and how many other forms – the debate has only just begin. If the eventual reform isn’t successful and carry with it the support of the public then there will be a backlash, so proceed with caution.

    There is no way the changes needed can be rushed through before the next general election and they should be questioned if they were. Act in haste, repent at leisure!

    I think any reform must come as part of a coherent package, so I’m interested in how each side proposes to fit everything together.

    What will happen to the Lords? What about local/regional government and legitimacy in the EU? …should a written constitution obviate the need for a representative constitutional monarch who will execute a Charles this time?

    Although I think the LibDems are the most credible on this subject I’m not convinced you have given it nearly enough thought.

    However don’t anybody be fooled into thinking the status quo is is in any way acceptable (I suggest giving Glastonbury a miss this year – lol).

  20. Ziggy Encaoua Says:


    I know it is a bit off topic but what is your view on folk who don’t pay Tax here having a political say about what should be going on politically here.

  21. Mark Littlewood Says:

    I don’t mind anyone having a “say”.

    If some random person from any part of the globe wants to have a say, fine.

    I don’t think votes can or should be linked to whether you pay tax.